Puggle

A A A A Author Topic: Starter Clutch  (Read 819 times)

Seagrass

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #25 on: 20-Sep-20, 11:28 »
Graham I always use Permatex non-hardening aviation cement. I use this on many things including on some sump plug bolts.

I especially use it when I have even a small doubt about how well a gasket may seal. I would use it on the rear cover gasket, the clutch cover gasket, the oil pan gasket and around the rim of the mechanical seal before you press it into the rear cover.

If you make a mess with it you can easily clean it up with metho (about the only thing I found that works)

Seagrass

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #26 on: 20-Sep-20, 19:02 »
thanks Seagrass
where do you get permatex ?

one more problem
I only seem to be able to move the auto chain tensioner back about 3mm just not enough to align the small hole to secure the push rod back and relieve the tension on the chain.  I've pushed the ball back as well and still no turther pushrod movement.
Is there a trick to this.   the utube videos make it look so easy but mine just will not move back that extra few mm to allow the alignment of the small hole in the push rod and the tensioner casing.
I will appreciate any suggestions.
gm

Seagrass

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #27 on: 20-Sep-20, 19:09 »
Graham I looked at my current bottle of aviation sealer and it is actually branded as Loctite now. I get mine from my local auto parts store.

I think the trick with the tensioner is to “jiggle” the ball with a screwdriver while you are pushing back on the tensioner. It does not move back in one smooth movement but in small bits at a time.

Seagrass

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #28 on: 21-Sep-20, 17:59 »
thanks Seagrass
you were correct I jiggled and it moved perfectly.
thanks
gm

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #29 on: 24-Sep-20, 17:34 »
Hello Gurus
again

I have your next challenge well its mine really.
I have been unable to remove the outer starting clutch (where the rollers springs and caps or plungers are housed) from the fly wheel.  It is rock solid all the Torx bolts are out. Its possibly held by the oil or grease causing a vacuum seal.  I can't lift the thrust washer out either ( I can turn it but it doesn't want to come out).
Does anyone have any ideas on how to remove it or is it really necessary, I am pretty sure I can install the rollers, springs and caps while the outer starting clutch remains in the fly wheel.
gm

CX PHREAK

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #30 on: 24-Sep-20, 17:42 »
The torx bolts are single use only and should be replaced if disturbed.

the cover does not need to be removed to refit the starter clutch components.

 Just put the cap on the spring and fit cap end last. i hold it compressed with my pocket knife. Push in the roller and you're done.


gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #31 on: 24-Sep-20, 21:59 »
thanks CX PHREAK
I was hoping that was going to be the case.
yes I have the new torx bolts, springs, caps and rollers.
gm

CX PHREAK

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #32 on: 24-Sep-20, 22:06 »
cool. just flush the area out with aerosol degreaser and compressed air if you have it.

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #33 on: 25-Sep-20, 18:58 »
yes no worries CXPHREAK I have them both.
gm

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #34 on: 21-Nov-20, 09:52 »
Hi Gurus
I hope you are all well
I'm not sure if I should start a new thread or not but
I repaired the starter clutch, replaced the cam chain, fixed the thread on the impeller, cleaned the carbies and flushed the fuel tank.
I have reassembled it and recharged the battery.  I have lights, horn and blinkers BUT when I hit the starter button the first time there was no response absolutely nothing from the motor.  I checked out the three pin plug (from regulator to generator) which had given problems in the past and noted two of the yellow wires had become disconnected so i fixed that and when I pushed the starter button all that happened was a clicking sound in the bowl under the 30amp fuse.
any ideas what I could do to get the bike to turn over?
GM

CX PHREAK

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #35 on: 21-Nov-20, 12:34 »
That could just be an undercharged battery.

Check that the motor is free to turn by turning it from the front of the crank just in case it has ended up mechanically locked for some reason.

Battery should be at or above 12.5 volts and maintain over 10 volts when the starter button is pushed or may have a dead cell.

Seagrass

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #36 on: 21-Nov-20, 13:05 »
The bowl under the 30 a amp fuse is the starter solenoid that when activated, supplies power to the starter motor.

If it is just clicking then either your battery is flat (should read at least 12.6 volts if charged) or it is actually engaging and your starter motor is not engaging.

Did you connect the power wire AND the large ground wire (the large wire from the battery that tends to hide behind the frame when disconnected) to the starter motor?

Seagrass

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #37 on: 21-Nov-20, 16:50 »
thanks Seagrass
I double checked.  both wires are connected. That is the one at the back between the starter motor and the engine (I think) which goes to the negative battery terminal and the other bolts on to the top of the starter motor and runs back to the 30 amp fuse configuration.  The battery is reading 12.9volts. The terminal on top of the starter motor seems very close to the motor and frame see photo.
gm

Onetrack

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #38 on: 21-Nov-20, 18:13 »
1) Turn on the head light , is it at normal brilliance?  Press the starter does the light stay on, it will dim a little, if a lot there is a weak earth connection somewhere. (battery to frame)
2) bypass the relay by strapping to two large terminals, expect a large spark, does the motor spin, if so the relay is faulty, if not there is a poor connection somewhere.

CX PHREAK

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #39 on: 21-Nov-20, 18:37 »
This motor has been partially dismantled.

There are a number of opportunities for the motor to become mechanically locked. Given this bikes particular circumstance the impeller being against the rear cover is possible. Then there's the work on the starter clutch.

While the issue is more likely a battery or ground fault I would rule out any mechanical locking by manually rotating the motor before I continued trying to force the motor to turn.

Starter clutch operation can be checked with the starter motor removed by poking your finger into the starter motor hole in the rear cover. Put your finger upwards and to the right and locate the starter idler gear. This should rotate easily in one direction and not at all in the other.

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #40 on: 21-Nov-20, 20:49 »
thank you Gurus
The head light was a bit funny just then, didn't come on at first but after an on/off play with the switch it came on strong.  I pressed the start button and the head light did dim a fraction, almost unnoticeable.
I put it in gear but could not turn the rear wheel. it turns ok with the clutch in.
I'll take the startermotor out tomorrow to check the starter clutch.
thanks again I'll let you know how it goes.
gm

CX PHREAK

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #41 on: 21-Nov-20, 21:15 »
You need to be a gorilla to rotate the motor through the back wheel and gearbox.

Easier to use the 17 mm hex on the front of the crank behind the round inspection cover.

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #42 on: 21-Nov-20, 22:29 »
Thanks CX PHREAK
I feel a little less puny
gm

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #43 on: 22-Nov-20, 08:48 »
good morning Gurus
Onetrack you suggested
2) bypass the relay by strapping to two large terminals, expect a large spark, does the motor spin, if so the relay is faulty, if not there is a poor connection somewhere.
sorry but I'm not sure which two large terminals are these the two with the rubber boots on the fuse/relay?
gm

Onetrack

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #44 on: 22-Nov-20, 16:04 »
There is a thick cable from the battery and another black cable to the starter held in place by 10mm nuts on the top of the relay.
Another test is when you have the starter motor away from the engine to check the clutch things as Phreak suggested reconnect the two cables to the starter motor and then press the starter button (with the ignition switched on)  the motor should spin, it will jump quite a lot hold it firmly.  If no spin go to 2) above.

Onetrack

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #45 on: 22-Nov-20, 16:10 »
You need to be a gorilla to rotate the motor through the back wheel and gearbox.

Easier to use the 17 mm hex on the front of the crank behind the round inspection cover.
Removing the spark plugs makes this much easier still difficult, remember to put the plugs back into the leads and see that the plugs are earthed as fully disconnected plug leads can lead to other problems or at least use the kill switch

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #46 on: 27-Nov-20, 18:58 »
Dear Gurus
Well, I tried bypassing the relay with no luck.  I pulled the starter motor out and checked the operation of the starter idler gear - all good - turns freely in one direction and not at all in the other.
I sat down, looked at the starter motor, used some colourful language (this thing was working fine before I pulled everything apart) disconnected all the cables, thought about throwing it out the door, picked up a multimeter in stead and noted no current running through from the relay cable connection to the negative connection.  I found a spare starter motor tested it and noted the current flowed.  I found a new 30amp fuse and thought I would change that and noted that when I unscrewed the first screw the fuse fell into two pieces.
So, I put the spare starter motor in, replaced the fuse, put the key to on and hit the button. The starter motor turned over effortlessly.
I'll get some fuel and try to kick the motor over tomorrow and see if it runs.
thank you so much for your help.
gm

Seagrass

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #47 on: 27-Nov-20, 19:41 »
Great news Graham.

BEFORE you try and start the motor, turn the kill switch OFF and run the starter in ten second bursts until the oil pressure light goes OFF.

Once you have done this flick the kill switch ON and let it start.

This way you make sure all the important bits have lubrication BEFORE it starts happy0159

Seagrass

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #48 on: 27-Nov-20, 22:05 »
thanks Seagrass
good advice. I'm glad I didn't rush in and attempt to start it.
gm

gm

Re: Starter Clutch
« Reply #49 on: 28-Nov-20, 10:00 »
Hi Gurus
we have a hot day at Jannali today
I primed the motor as Seagrass suggested.
I made two attempts to start no luck.  I noted fuel coming from the carby area (Right side) I panicked and wiped it up. the thought of having to pull the carbies out again was not a happy thought so I attempted to start it again it took quite a few revolutions BUT it actually started.
I can rev it a bit but it doesn't seem to hold idle.  There was a slight backfire from the right muffler which went away when I increased the revs. The fuel is a few months old and there is only a trickle left. Could the idle issue be as simple as adding new fuel and adjusting the idle screw (not sure how to do that with two carbies)?
There was some smoke that came from the front however this looks like it was some oil or grease on the header pipe again on the right side.
thanks again.  By the way it starts much easier than it used to.
gm

 


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