Starter motor improvement

[cxichy]

Thanks Joe and Les.

I'll decide on which of the three available methods after "opening up".  (Sounds like medical surgery, maybe we should give this "procedure" a name.  I'm sure someone can improve on "cx starter triple tang bypass" or "cx starter cover shunt").

[jhovel]

I like "CX starter triple tang bypass"  
Let's call it that for now. CX-STTB

[joethebike]

This is a truly useful post and it had me pulling my 500 starter motor apart to check the insides. Yes, there is a little arcing burn against the three tabs that earth against the end cover but not excessively so and not so noticeable that performance has ever been affected.

I simply cleaned the two contact points (x3) between the steel tang and the alloy end cover and bent the steel tang up a bit so it had a very good contact when the cover is drawn down by the two long fixing screws. There was a little spark erosion in the alloy to allow for.

I figure that will do for another 27 years.

Joe

[Onetrack]

Some photos of my humble effort.  Cable length is about 60mm, not 30 as I said before. Pics have suffered from shrinking with Photoshop but you can see the idea.  The bolt is stainless steel 5 mm diameter with a nylock nut inside.  Anyone that wants to hide the bolt might like to use one of the other methods.

Les F (650 pensioner)

[phantomcxmenance]

just pulled mine apart and my starter looks allot better than that one les....wonder why it did not have the omphmph.....I will post some piccies tomorrow

[Onetrack]

Phanto

My photos show warts and all what happens with 25 years of utter neglect including 13 years standing still in the tropics - I want to ride it not spanner it and I admit it is catching up with me but I do have more time these days and  I thank modern technology and a fine group of people like yourself and others here with good advice and original ideas to call on.  

My starter has never had enough omphmph even when new and was a disappointment having just sold my wornout CB750K"0" which always started willingly.  I put the weak starting down to all the CX's including the 400 having the same starter and the unit being under rated for the 650 - it now works as you would expect.      

Les F

[phantomcxmenance]

ok,

pulled apart the 500 starter that had been on my bike for three years I had known of ..started showing a reluctance to turn over and start my cx500 1978.............replaced starter and problem was solved.

So with this interesting post going on I decided to pull apart the 500 starter.

Bloody hell what the ....

whats all this crap inside my 500 starter(remember members. 500 starters are the bees knees)

Look at the piccies .....they explain all...heaps of carbon,burnt offerings,a little oil,and signs of arching.

Maybe our, that is aces and my 500, are high compression 650's in discuise and they all suffer from this problem.

Just that the 500 take longer to show the signs of old age and due to the lower compresssion ?

Someone esle pull apart a 500 starter and show us inside one of there's.

[phantomcxmenance]

and more sorry about the clarity...to many beers

[Onetrack]

Starters like that could lead one to drink!

Les F

[Seagrass]

Phantom,

The Shadow I purchased earlier this year did not start very well and when I pulled the starter apart it looked similar to your pictures (maybe not quite so bad)

I gave it a clean up and put it back together and it was much better.

I pulled it apart again yesterday and cleaned up the earthing contacts (like joethebike describes) and now it is even a little bit better again

Seagrass

[jhovel]

Hi all.
Phantom's and Les's starter insides are absolutely normal! No panic. Every single one I have opened so far (about 7 of them) looked like that inside!
Cleaning them is pretty easy though: shake the loose crap out, a little compressed air if you have it, wash everything out with petrol/grease&wax remover/WD40/brake cleaner - whatever your preferred cleaning fluid is (I wouldn't use carby cleaner, as it may dissolve the insulation of the windings - but I don't know that). Make a mental note of the washers on each end and see you put them back where they came from later.
Note: when you blow compressed air into the endcaps, you may find a little felt ring flying out from behind the bushes at each end. Once you've finsihed cleaning, put it back: it holds a little grease in place to smear onto the armature shaft and could be helpful.
Once clean and the carbon brushes are moving freely again, scrape out the crud in between the copper segments of the commutator and give the commutator a quick and light once over with a pot scrubber, plastic abrasive or brass/stainless steel wool. Just enough to clean most of the carbon deposit off the copper.
A little grease on the ends of the armature spindle.
That's it!
Make the negative connector modification of your choice (Hann, jovel, LesF, or Joe's) and put it  back into service until the next time you think you can't resist checking the amount of carbon deposits inside....

[phantomcxmenance]

washers on each end? do we have an exploded view of this,I have two washers ,well one shim and they can only fit into the end cap end

[Tas650]

This makes an insane difference! I was struggling with starting before this(Tassie weather). But after taking the motor out, cleaning what looks like 20 years of carbon deposits out, and then making this new earth, feels like a new motor! Thanks a heap for the solution!

[Onetrack]

This is an essential and simple mod for every 650 and probably 500's.  Since performing the mod no more clashing noises from the starter clutch either.

"Young" Les F

[dr_gaz]

Since doing this modification the GL700 engine has spun like a young thing, but still been hard to start.  After going through the wiring loom I finally checked out the earthing contact.  On the GL this is under the seat where two green wires are crimped to an eyelet and bolted to the frame.  It always looked okay but undoing it showed how much corrosion there was.  After cleaning it all back to bare metal and liberal addition of WD40 all my ignition and charging problems are cured.  One to watch when you're looking at the electrics of a 27 year old bike.