Starter motor

[Rayman]

looks like the SM that came down from Cairns has a dodgy armature winding  (or something dodgy at least) will have a look at it on the weekend once higher priority stuff id sorted.

so looking for a replacement -
will check the wreckers locally first up.


Rayman

[marvellous_matt]

Hi Rayman,
I have one, however I cant put my had on it for a few weeks. Its with my bike in Vic while Im living in the NT for a while. Im heading down sth for a visit and ride around the 17th Oct, if this fits in with your time frame PM me to work out how to get it to you.
cheers Matt

[hdconyers]

Ray i have one sitting in a packet that I bought off E Bay, as a spare.

How soon do you need it??

[Rayman]

not urgent harold -
its for no 2 so its a build in progress - I'll steal the one of no 1 tonight for some testing stuff that I need to do.

might be feasible to send back via vjmc - mount gambier - adelaide maybe ?

PM me the price mate

Rayman

[Honey]

Rayman

we have one for the 500 will send up to u with other gear i forgot to post last week
if you like

Mel

[Rayman]

ahhh
 thanks mel - do that and I'll hunt up one in the background to replace it with

Rayman

[Hann]

looks like the SM that came down from Cairns has a dodgy armature winding  (or something dodgy at least)
Rayman

Rayman,what are the symptoms of your `dodgy` starter motor?

I have been doing a bit of fettling on them recently and have come up with a cunning fix to the problem of sluggish starting on the 650`s;

http://ofapars-.webs.com/testpage.htm   

And another fault i found on one of my 500`s;

http://ofapars-.webs.com/footerin.htm

The armatures are usually reliable,take it apart and have a look inside?

Hann.

[Arty]

Thanks for that one Hann
I have a few of these 650 motors so will be one of my next projects
Arty

[Olwesty]

Yes .. good tip Hann .. I'll try it on my 650 ..
Thanks,

Lindsay

[cxichy]

Brilliant Hann: great idea and well documented. It'd be great to not have to twiddle the kill switch every time.  Thanks!

[Hann]

Do you Aussie guys with the 650`s have the same sluggish starting problems that we seem to have here in the UK then?

[Rayman]

interesting hann !!

I'll take a look at the tang / connection issue on the weekend - the rest of it should be ok as apart from that
it was rebuilt a few months back but has sat idle in between -

Rayman

[phantomcxmenance]

yet another 650 fault hey ACE

[Arty]

 

[phantomcxmenance]

heheheheheheh...allways good to stir

I have a starter motor apart on the bench at present so I will check this out for the same symtoms..it is from a 500 though but it will be good to do comparisons

Just one thing hann, the corrosion ,could that be as you live in the UK with all the salt etc on the roads? Does this mean the unit is not sealed?

[Hann]

It`s probably a contributory factor,Menace - the salt wreaks HAVOC on our bikes in the winter if left on the metal parts and not washed off.
There are o-rings sealing each end-cap on the starter motors,but the water seems to be able to get past....
It`s doesn`t seem to be just a UK thing though,the sluggish 650 starting issue has been mentioned here (Oz) and in the US,too...

[Biker Chick]

   Go the 500's   

[Onetrack]

It might be a "fault" but it seems able to be overcome unlike shortage of cc's.  Just seems be be a little harder to get all that superior energy going.

PS is the 650 starter the same as the 500 starter?

Les F

[Seagrass]

The 650 starters are different to the 500 starters but they are interchangeable.

A lot of owners with 650's replace their starters with one from a 500 when they start having problems as the 500 starters have proved to be more reliable.

Seagrass

[jhovel]

Hi, Seagrass, apart from the black colour of the field coil section on the 650 and turbos, I can't for the life of me find any difference at all between 500 and 650 starter. I have 3 CX500 starter here and had them apart, 2 CX500TC starter and 3 CX650 starters. I'm damned if I can find any difference in construction, or electrical properties.
Do you know what the difference is?

[cxichy]

Do you Aussie guys with the 650`s have the same sluggish starting problems that we seem to have here in the UK then?

I do.  Sometime the cranking even stops momentarily!  This has been explained to me as being caused by the spark firing at more degrees BTDC than other bikes, and the starter motor having to fight against a reverse direction power stroke.   Not sure what the actual BTDC figure at low revs is.

Supporting this theory is the fact that the pause in the black beauty's cranking NEVER occurs with the kill switch in the ON position.

[Arty]

I have had 3 apart and cannot remember anny difference, could be that they were produced in different factories and the quality of the workmanship was not the same, that aside have a 500 starter in a running worn motor and a 650 in a rebuilt tight motor and there seems to be no difference

I do.  Sometime the cranking even stops momentarily!  This has been explained to me as being caused by the spark firing at more degrees BTDC than other bikes, and the starter motor having to fight against a reverse direction power stroke.   Not sure what the actual BTDC figure at low revs is.

Supporting this theory is the fact that the pause in the black beauty's cranking NEVER occurs with the kill switch in the ON position.

Clasic example of faulty connection in the starter circuit
Arty

[cxichy]

.....
Clasic example of faulty connection in the starter circuit
Arty

Sounds good Arty.  But with a lack of time between now and the VJMC, looks like I'll be twiddling the kill switch on all starts till after I get back from Healsville.

[Onetrack]

I would be interested to know if anyone that was experiencing starter clutch problems had them go away after this mod was done.  I suspect some starter clutch problems occur due to the starter motor revving up to its correct speed too slowly or having insufficient torque.   I say this because in the past when I had an old or failing battery I would on occasions hear loud noises from the starter motor that went away when a new battery was fitted.  I do not suggest this as a cure for a damaged clutch but possibly part of the cause.  Fixing the starter motor early looks a lot easier than fixing the starter clutch.

Les F


I see that on the "Starter motor improvement" thread Glen and Rayman have already said that weak starting causes starter clutch problems.

[Arrne]

looks like the SM that came down from Cairns has a dodgy armature winding  (or something dodgy at least) will have a look at it on the weekend once higher priority stuff id sorted.

so looking for a replacement -
will check the wreckers locally first up.


Rayman

Ray, Ray, Ray,
You should have called.  I've a slightly tired one available, for indefinite loan at the very least.